When CJ Brown and Ali Gavin are asked what they prefer out of playing and refereeing rugby league, their answer is quick and unequivocal.
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"Refereeing," they both said in unison.
And as womens rugby league continues to grow, the two Group 10 referees are at the forefront in changing the game.
Both CJ and Ali are Orange's brightest young talents when it comes to rugby league officiating and their expertise has only grown stronger from attending a Women in League officiating program (WILOP) in Canberra last weekend.
WILOP is a program focused on the development of female match officials from community rugby league right through to NRL competition games and seeks to identify the top talent in NSW.
After Group 10 referees association invited them to apply, the two were selected to attend by New South Wales Rugby League and learn from the best in the business: Gavin and Kasey Badger.
"We were able to meet all the referees, senior referees and make new friends," CJ explained.
"We learnt all the new calls, some skills and how to deal with certain situations."
Along with enhancing their skills, the girls were special guests at the Women's State of Origin game on Friday night.
Those senior referees they learnt from over the weekend, were officiating at the game.
"It was fun, I quite enjoyed it and getting to meet all the girls around NSW and hear their stories," CJ added.
While playing for Orange CYMS in junior rugby league, CJ and Ali both took up the whistle two years ago and the main motivation for the decision came from the social aspect.
"I saw people running around the field and thought, 'hey that looks fun'," CJ said.
(It's rewarding) to run around with little kids, play around with them on the field, show them how to play and what they have to do."
Along with the opportunity to meet new people, Ali believes it presents an opportunity to show that women can participate in a traditionally male dominated occupation.
"(It's important to) show people that it's not just a mens thing to do, women can do it as well," she said.
While there's plenty of fun to be had with refereeing, both agreed it can come with challenges.
"Sometimes the crowd," CJ laughed.
And as for the ultimate goal with their refereeing? Well there's no better motivating than aiming for the top.
"(I just want) to keep learning and hopefully get to referee in the NRL," Ali said.
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